Friday, September 22, 2006

A Ramadhan Wish and Short Snippets

I agree with you, I agree not

I was reading a malay newspaper today. It wasn't yours, Azahar but I do read HM everyday though! Anyway, I came across this article which condemned Pope Benedict's controversial speech. The more I read it the more I agree with the writer and I found that each of his sentence echoed my thoughts regarding the issue. That the Pope must have had some hidden agenda to focus on an ancient dialogue between a christian ruler and an imam. That the speech only biasedly focussed on the negative statements of the ruler and not mention any rebuke from the imam. That the Pope can't expect Muslims to forgive him simply by saying that he was only quoting a previous dialogue and not his. But if the Pope himself disagree with the vilifying statements then why mention at all?? So as i read along the article and nodding with sheer agreement, I was saying to myself, "This writer is good. Our thoughts are so alike. Wonder who the writer is" So my eyes shifted up again to focus on the writer's name. Lo and behold! I couldnt believe my eyes! The writer was an ex-finance minister that had created much havoc to our economy and I have since habour great distrust in him. Here I was, feeling so good that someone had written my exact sentiment regarding the issue but only to find out that the writer was someone that I can't trust anymore! Ironic isn't it?

Roger Federer the F1 driver?

Sports has never been my cup of tea. Now don't get me wrong. It's not that I don't advocate exercise or being active in sports. I do believe that one needs to at least be physically active everyday. But I am not the one to stay up for any live sports events on TV. I would't want to waste my beauty sleep over a football match, world cup or not. I wouldn't be interested to know who won the Wimbledon or Grand Slam.I don't care if Schumacer wins the next F1 or not. I can't give a hoot what tryes are allowed for the race, Michellin or Bridgestone. In Mama Sarah's latest entry she showed a clip of Emyr tackling a football with finesse and I commented that Emyr's mum must be proud of him and that he could be the next "Ranoldino" which should have been spelt as Ronaldinho, hehe. Well, with near-sounding names like Ronaldinho, Ronaldo and Rivaldo, you'll never know, 'Ranolldino' might just be the next sought after football player! This was not my first sports slip-up. I remember making a comment at Has's blog regarding Roger Federer. It was the F1 season then and when Has mentioned Roger, I mistakenly said that I was not an F1 fan. There you go. When you let a non-sports person into the wild, she'll create a new football figure and turn a fantastic tennis ace into an F1 driver!! Ta da!

Our very own Turks!!

My previous entry on Orhan Pamuk's book has created an interesting thread of dialogue between Nnydd and Kucuk Mehmet a.k.a. Boogey. It seems that this 2 guys are so well versed in the history of Turkey, specifically of the Ottoman Empire. It is truly fascinating to hear about the old legendary figures of Turkey, the tariqats and their intriguing epic.

Here are some exerpts of the discussion between the 2:

Nnydd Said:
I agree that OP might only be trying to illustrate the decaying days of the Khalifah. But one also got to know his background, his history and his intent to the potrayal that the cause, the root cause of this, is the 'alim of Turkey. I do not contend that maybe he is good writer, likewise his interpretor is a good interpretor, but I contend the message he wanted to convey. I certainly do not find him a representative of Turkey's Ottomania, unless if I am a secularimania.

Boogey said:
Orhan Pamuk is not an ottomania. He`s as many other turkish writers of the republican era are Ataturkcu. However one must also accept the possibility of some truth in things we do not agree with in his writing. The last years of the ottoman was not the same as in the 16th century. For more details you create an entry for discussion.

Nydd said:
I agree that degradations happened at the end of the Caliphate. Katib Chelebi wrote in Dusturu-l-amel, as early as 1650s, "The natural life of man is reckoned in three parts: the age of growth, the age of attainment and maturity, the age of decline...History shows that some states have decined soon after the age of growth; some have been cut off in tehir prime by a disaster of fate; and some lik ethis illustrious Ottoman state, have enjoyed a long period of maturity because they are built on firm foundations and good principles. However in both individuals and in societies the signs of the third age are discernible." But to put this solely at the foot of the scholars and at the system of Caliphate? And to ignore the intent, purpose and effect of the secularists? In this I find imbalance. There were hopes for the Ottoman even as it breathed the last breath - it had some of the finest thinkers, some of the best scholars, some of the best Sultans and governors in the whole of Islamic world, but whatever hoope was extinguished by other playful hands.

Boogey said:
Yes, you are right about the Suleymanci wearing robes. The same is actually true with the Nurcus. Syed Nursi wore robes and carry a cane and some sects within the Nurcus still wear robes. Once they came out in the local news when a group of them wore robes and carry canes in public.

I said:
Didnt know wearing robes or not is so significant among the turks?

Boogey said:
During the ottoman era, wearing robes is common. In fact you can identify they belong to which school from the color of their robes or headwear. Nowadays wearing such robes and headwear is strongly discouraged but you can still differentiate the tarikatcis from the beads and how they hold the beads during zikir. The tarikatcis usually have a place they get together for sohbet which means dialougue just like the Nurcus and suleymancis. In Malaysia we call this sohbet event usrah. Sohbet centres are called tekke or medrese. It is also a refuge. You can eat, sleep there for as long as you want. For tarikatcis you don`t need a particular topic for sohbet. No dialogue is a waste of time as long as within the islamic boundries because for them diague is a communication between souls/heart and not minds.

Withold the food, dear!

As Ramadhan is approaching, someone requested that we cool down on food entries, :p. Point taken, Azahar. So Mama Sarah, please stop asking Sarah to make those yummy pudds and QOTH, no more Curry Laksa till Ramadhan is over!:p

Selamat Menyambut Ramadhan!


pycnogenol said...

On I agree with you, I agree not -

Does this mean that if you agree with a person's view then you are with them and they are rewarded, and if you disagree with their views, you are making a clear stand that you are NOT with them, and they are punished?

Since agreeing and disagreeing is really just an opinion, I don't think we should get terribly upset by the fact that we are now in agreement with the views and opinion of someone we simply cannot bring ourselves to like.

On the contrary, maybe that would be a reflection of how fair and impartial we can be.
After all, 'kepala sama hitam, hati lain-lain.' Jadi, sekurang-kurang nya, kita terima hakikat bahawa, bahagian kepala tu, memang kita masih sama hitam (for now, at least).....sebelum kepala yang seorang lagi bertukar kelabu atau putih....

Tapi, alangkah bahagia nya, kalau kita dapat sama-sama bertukar kelabu dan putih.

Selamat menyambut Ramadhan Tabibah dan Ikelah. Maaf atas segala gurauan, kealpaan dan kesilapan.

fm said...

assalamualaikum warahmatullah
DITH dan semua,
saya pun sama serius kali ni..nak minta ampun maaf kat semua, yg mana terkasar bahasa dan tercela budi bicara, yg kdg2 ter-miscom ke n etc (maklumla syaitan itu pantas sekali hasutannya, tajam skali peluangnya). lots of duas for me plsss.

DITH- fyi, blog ni ada banyak jenis2 selawat, boleh kita ikut nyanyi, 45,58,57,59 (highly recommended)

dr in the house or tabibah fi al bait (given by Hiyoshi) said...

Masyallah Pycno,

You sound so serious this morning! I feel as though I am in a court room listening to a defense lawyer making his concludig speech! :ppp

Entahlah semamngnya manusia tu begitulah. Penuh dengan prejudis yg meluap-luap!

Terlalu sukar bagi saya untuk menerima pendapat seseorang itu ikhlas jika selama ini beliau telah jelas menunjukkan sikap yang sebaliknya!

But of course that's not suppose to be the way of a muslim eh. I should have taken a 'goodwill' attitude and have good thoughts of him having turned over a new leaf???:p

Saya juga memohon ampun maaf di atas segala gurau dan silap tutur bahasa! Kirim salam peluk cium kpd Bea!


JAzakillah for the tips on zikir and selawat. Yes let's make dua for everyone ok! Kenang daku dalam dua mu ya FM!

pycnogenol said...

So sorry if I sound so serious, Tabibah. Reading back my comments, I cannot blame you for coming to that conclusion.
It was for that reason that I was trying hard to 'soften' the message with some humour and the perumpamaan, 'kepala sama hitam, hati lain-lain'....Guess that was interpreted to further strenghten my arguments.

My apologies.

P/S: And Bea sends her peluk cium cyber to you back. ;)

Queen Of The House said...

Local politics is enough to muddle up my mind ... now world "politico-religion" or whatever the word is, is more befuddling. Sometimes i read and not feel like reading, and sometimes I think I'll just skip but am compelled to read .... lepas tu, dok geram sorang-sorang.

On sports .... I don't give much hoot too, so tak nak comment. You know I am now thinking of how to get myself active, heheh.

Okay okay, bulan puasa ni, kalau nak post gambar-gambar makanan, cuma yang berkaitan dengan juadah berbuka, boleh? Only healthy ones :-)

Ikelah said...

(maaf atas ejaan yang salah, ada eyesight problem and without reading glasses)

cerita pope
as for me, whatever the pope had said and apologise after the supposed misunderstanding, the damage was already done. the bomb had exploded and we have debris and casualties. that is what we have to deal with.

as foe the write in HM, we may agree with his ideas but with a questionable background, the views remains there. we should not quote him. Quoting should be refered to a person of high credibility and authority.

samalah kita but my knowledge in F1 is getting better after the australian disaster somewhere 3-4 years back.


i have not read the book. whoever says the last years of the caliphs is not the same during the golden years of the ottoman, i will say it may be true. whoever says due to the weakness of the last years of the ottoman and therefore its appropiate for the kemal to change, i'll say if I were there, I'll be in the lines of the ottoman army defending the caliph NOT with the attartuks.

Destroying the caliphs system was the ultimate goal of the crusaders war, not just liberating baitul maqdis. they were free for their pilgrimages if they want to during the ottoman era. i'll just like to ask the count of the pilgrimages from the west sfter the fall of baitul maqdis? they dont even bother to defend the destruction done by the zionis. Allah had showed us the significant of unity in Perang Jamal. Study the incidences before Battle of the Camel well.

with the fall of the last caliph, the unity of muslim world is gone. OIC ke, NAM ke, UN ke wont give any justice to the ummah. what we shold instill in our mind, our children's mind and children of our childrens is to bring back the caliph system that will bring unity and strength to the ummah and peace to our world.

Jihad fi Sabilillah

wallahu 'alam.

Calikusu said...

The ottoman khalifate was the strongest and most respected empire during it`s golden years. The forming of the empire itself is legendary. Imagine a nomadic tribal group with no technological knowledge of even building a hut can form the most advanced empire within a century. Fatih Sultan Mehmet opened the then inpenetrable walls of Constantinople the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire to Islam when noone could even the ashabs. Those were the glorious years of the ottoman empire through the leadership of , Fatih, Suleyman the legislator, Sultan Selim up to Sultan Mehmet 2. Then the fall started. The Blue mosque many admires were one of the last great mosque displaying authentic Ottoman architecture. With the abolishment of the Fatih Kanunamesi, luxury palaces, summer palaces, yalis, konaks emerged like mushrooms instead of mosques. Even mosques were built by foreign architecs bearing rokoko and baroque style. French cultural influence appear on the streets of Istanbul during the 18th century among the priviledged class. These all are in Istanbul the capital city where the people speaks the high class language and mostly learned. The rural areas spoke a lower class language and were left neglected. The people were separated in classes.
That is why Ataturk gained much support from the rural people even through the hardship of misaki milli (national mobilisation) aganst the foreign invaders.. What he did after he form the republic is a different argument.
The crusaders have penetrated the ottoman palace long before Ataturk were born.

fm said...

ada masa nanti..sila la tgk, (esp for our Turks)

salam ramadhan n maaf zahir batin.

fm said...

DITH- yg no.43 tu dah dgr? suka sgt kompang dia..(nnti anakanda2 DITH/Ikelah kahwin, boleh la main lagu ni :D)

(tetiba terbayang...bilis2 PMS beratur main kompang sambut KKL kat airport M'sia)

Ikelah said...

hahahaha... bilis pms beratur menyambut pycno kat UK... kat M'sia nanti clebriti yang menyambut pms dan mynn.

pycnogenol said...

Aduh...sakit perut mengenangkan bilis berbaris ni..

So PMS, dare you parade your bilis again?

Mama Sarah said...

re: perbarisan ikan bilis (raised by fm and ikelah)

i was advised not to publish food entries temporarily by the author of this blog :(

(i baru je nak buat entry on another pudd. Kalau puasa hari Ahad, probably I would -just to tease you ya Tabibah)

(btw pycno, semalam i discovered 2 packet ikan bilis dah berkulat!!! SEDIH SANGAT! and angry at the same time. Dia berkualat walaupun belum buka pun packaging tu. and expiry date Sept 2007)

re: "anakanda2 ikelah/DITH kahwin"

ehem*ehem* berwawasan ke hadapan nampak :)

ikelah again
re: celebrity menyambut kepulangan 'P'MS dan Mynn

Ni lah dia berkawan di alam cyber. Tak kenal paras dan rupa. Gosh, I'm intrigued by your statement! Tiba2 looking forward nak balik, tak sangka yang we have befriended celebrities yang akan menyambut ketibaan kami - rakyat biasa.

re: I agree with you, I agree not

Isn't it ironic?!!

re: Roger Federer, Ranoldino, Ronaldinho?

Hey... apa ada pada nama? hehe.

re: Orhan Pamuk
I've never read any of his books, to be honest. But looking forward to read the one that has made KKL's eyes leak.

ummi said...

They r 2 different things - to agree with someone's opinion and to disagree with his actions or what he has done. The 2 may not be in positive tandem all the time. I guess,its easy to separate the two when we don't get personal.Certainly, we can agree about some things,even with a communist/or a kafir, though on another level we can totally disagree/not trust them.Tis true an irony, but the way I think it,it's quite palusible all the time.

On the Pope's speech,this is what the famous Karen Armstrong wrote:
The Pope's remarks were dangerous, and will convince many more Muslims that the west is incurably Islamophobic.

Karen Armstrong
Monday September 18, 2006
The Guardian

gee, right pause button for entries on eatables.

dr in the house or tabibah fi al bait (given by Hiyoshi) said...

QOTH- We can't shun these politico-religious issues . Memang menyakitkan hati but we need to keep abreast with them.

FM- PMS beratur main kompang??

iKelah and Pycno- bilis berbaris lagi!

Nisak- tgh hint Pycno pasal bilis tu, hehe

Salam. Yes I do agree with you. But I just cant believe that this ex minister had taken time to write on the issue. I've always thought that he wont waste time on things that dont concern money. Maybe I am wrong eh?

Karen Armstong's statement is so true!

OK said...

A friend once told me to concentrate on the message and not the messenger, but I must admit, there are times that that would require an iron will because we so dislike a person... hmm maybe with Ramadhan pintu hati akan terbuka.. insyaAllah.

.. A rose by any other name is still a rose.. so ranoldino by any other name is stil ronaldinho.. hehehe.

On the Turks - very interesting history there... maybe I should read up more on them.

FOr everyone, selamat berpuasa and ampun maaf sekiranya terkasar bahasa secara sengaja (most of the time) and tak sengaja (tak sengaja tu). Also if anybody tersinggung with my long2 replies.


ummi said...

I reckon, most politicians will say a lot of things, monetary or non-monetary items, with a certain agenda in mind.For me, its ok to agree with them where we shud, but to put them in positions of power require further scrutiny.
Umm...which article was it u read?Care to pass it on to me?

dr in the house or tabibah fi al bait (given by Hiyoshi) said...

You are absolutely right there brother. The message is of ultimate importance. However if the messenger is of dubious background, his message has to be verified, eh? :p

DOnt worry of anyone getting hurt by your long comments. I love reading them especially when you quote all the quotable quotes of famous figures which many a times I myself dont know! :p


I read that one in Berita Harian I think last thursday. I tried searching it online but cant find. Insyallah will inform you once I get hold.

Has said...

Roza, selamat berpuasa dan meraih lebih takwa.


Nusayba said...

salam ramadhan to you and your loved ones. semoga tingkatnya iman, dan amal, dan diterimaNya, insyaAllah.

take care dith

dith said...


A big Ameen to your dua!


Another Ameen to you dua too! Take care!!

hiyoshi said...

Salam Ramadhan kepada Puan Doktor dan sekeluarga. Saya menyambut puasa pertama di rumah!

(Dapat la makan mewah sedikit)

dith said...


Mak masak apa? Ada cream caramel tak?

azahar said...

saya sepatutnya menjadi org berkecuali namun secara peribadi, saya bersetuju dengan drroza & dr ikelah dlm hal ini.
penulis sebegini biasanya gemar menulis bila sesuatu isu sedang hangat diperkatakan.tulisan itu menjadi tidak relevan apabila latar belakang penulis itu sendiri diragukan bila menulis sesuatu yg bersangkutan dgn agama.sama juga satu ketika dulu bila seorang xIGP menulis mengenai bidang kuasa & ketelusan kepolisian.
namun org tetap akan menyalahkan media kerana membenarkan tulisan sebegini disiarkan.
masalahnya drroza, media yang berkiblatkan parti politik pemerintah, mahu tak mahu terpaksa akur dgn arahan.ini kita panggil "wahyu" @ "must use".itu baru artikel, belum lagi berita & pic yg wajib disiarkan mengikut ranking individu tertentu.sau ketika dulu, kerap sgt berita & pic menantu seorang pemimpin tertinggi kerajaan disiarkan.bila ada yg menegur, barulah reda penampilannya.
terlalu ramai org yg pandai bercakap & menulis sesuatu yg tinggi tata bahasanya.bijak bermain kata2. lumrahnya manusia sebegini selain suka menunjuk-nunjuk, mahukan perhatian.

dr roza, artikel xminister itu tersiar dlm utusan 21/9 pg 11.

selamat menyambut ramadan kpd drroza sekeluarga & juga kpd rakan2 blog di sini.

Mama Sarah said...

DITH, saya baru je buat cream caramel (from instant pack!) semalam. Ada kawan datang.

p/s: dapat juga gambaran "behind the scene" from a real journalist. Selamat menyambut ramadhan kepada Sdr Azahar juga.

crimsonskye said...

There this kind of popular quote which goes something like, "Jangan tengok siapa yang berkata, tapi tengoklah apa yg diperkatakannya."

I'd say honestly that's still a very hard thing for me to do.

Speaking of Turkey and the Turks, I hope this isn't too way off-topic but I've always been curious about Mustafa Kamal Ataturk himself. How really far had he gone in trying to wipe out any Islamic identity in Turkey following the defeat of the Ottoman empire? And also is it really true about all those terrible stories regarding his death?

Ikelah said...

May Allah give us His Guidance.

He also had reminded us many times of people who wear, talk and walk like us and we are impressed in what they have said but be warned that they are worse than non believers.

Kindly refer at least to Surah Al Munafiquun for the existance of such persons.

Even word quotations said by famous Muslim schoolars, our references need to be based on when it was spoken. For instance of Malek ben Nabi, if we refer to his words and quotations its only after his downfall from power, repented and prove to be a subsevient Muslim.

A word of a man, when he is under pressure or confinement and words when he is with the 'free' world is also different. the environmental factors effect not only his judgement but his 'world view', his perspective of the world and what should and should not be done. Some are practical some dont.

Wallahu 'alam.

nnydd said...

I take a rather different view. When truth is spoken even when the speaker is a non-believer, truth has to be uphold. This is illustrated for e.g. in the oft-quoted Hilf al-Fudul. This event took place when the nobles of Mecca took oath to protect and prevent certain injustice and the Prophet s.a.w. himself took part and reiterated his approval of it when he s.a.w. said 'If it takes place again, I would eagerly take part again.'

The said person did not relay to us a strange 'khabar' or news. What he had written did not involve strategies or a determined, unreasonable effort to undermine someone else. What he had written echoes the opinion of scholars and part of the same inspiration Allah send down to people who share some faith and love for the Prophet s.a.w.

And, the injunction quoted tells us to check first before rejecting a khabar brought by a munafiq. It does say we must object to it outright - but to check before accepting it.

To object and reject truth even when it is presented by a kafir or a munafiq, regardless of makan (place) and zaman (time), without valid reason to do so, is in itself an injustice.

lentiform said...

To DITH and family,
selamat menyambut Ramadhan al mubarak

Ikelah said...

it was not only Hilf al-Fudul that the Great Prophet had respect upon, and dont get confuse with pact of humanitarian and events related to to the dignity of Islam. Even before Hudaibiyah and after Hudaibiyah The Great Prophet had pacts, agreements with the jews and other unbelievers in terms of strategic moves and sovereignty of the new nation but NOT faith.

But we are not talking about facts which might be true or may be false. we are talking about person/persons who used to ridicule the Islam as a way of life which indirectly making a mockery of Allah and The Prophet but suddenly trying to be the champion in defending Islam against the Pope's words. There is already too much confusion in this Islamic society with too many individuals trying to revive their existance at the right moment.

it was agreeble by pious Islamic schoolas not to accept tafsirs from 'unauthorised' non mujjahid academicians. what is mujjahid then? why cant we accept tafsirs from non Islamic academicians who are professors in Islamic studies where a number of our malaysians ustaz need them to get their pHD? a number of muslim will say, what is important is knowledge no matter they are jew or christian. a number will stay away to defend their thoughts from been corroded indirectly from these theologist.
(we can see many of them around now in their true colors)

i dont belong to this first group. i do not and will never not accept even though they read Quran better than us, they tafsir better than us, they debate better than us for Allah have warned us repeately about this group of people.

as for me, the ultimate just or unjust is based on the Al Quran and the way of the prophets and not what most of us think is right.

Loving God and The Prophet is not only by selawat or zikr but also in defending the warnings about this group of people as written in the Quran and what we obediently recite atleast 17x a day.

please refer to sdr azahar's comment about the real world, world of dr jekyl and mr hyde.

wallahu 'alam.

Boogey said...

The truth is I want fettucini for buka posa next Saturday.

Ku Keng said...

A friend described Benedict, the ex-Nazi as having gone to the garbage dump and picked the smelliest and rottenmost item from the bottom of the dump. And had it served as the main meal to his guests. And surprisingly the guests enjoyed it.

Anyway Selamat Beribadah dalam bulan Ramadhan al Mubarak ini. Semoga ibadah tahun ini lebih berkualiti dari yang lampau.

ummi said...

Salam.I believe that truth is truth regardless of where it comes from, even from our enemies. Of course, we need to investigate if its really the truth (if its not,then we need to reply accordingly).I believe that that is the safer route to avoid injustice, especially to our foe.U know, I've read some writings of Astora Jebat(not a popular guy in some quarters). In one article he wrote some things which were true.It was not easy to agree had I focus on Astora Jebat rather than what he wrote.I wish to reiterate that we read a person's writing on its face value for intellectual purpose. I don't think its fair to read writings with a prejudiced mind. I think the seeming discrepancy between preaches and practices is a different matter altogether. We r free to choose whom we wish to take as role models,but we should allow everyone the freedom to speak or ink his/her thots.Sori,drroza this is one of my passionate fields,but I still haven't actually read the exminister's article.

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